Thursday, March 26, 2009

My Reply to David Woycechowsky...

David B. Woycechowsky said...

Sometimes it is the thug that pulls out the gun and sometimes it is the police who shoot somebody they shouldn't.

Oscar Grant is one example.

Here is another:

If the police had kept cooler heads when apprehending Mixon, half of them wouldn't be dead.



This is going to be long for a comment, so I will make a new post out of it.

You are a patent lawyer. How do you rate telling us what is and is not "justice"?

You are from New York based upon your blogger profile. How do you deem yourself knowledgeable on either a shooting in Oakland or a shooting in Chino, neither of which you were anywhere near?

You are the Berkeley Bleeding-Heart Liberal type who are the problem rather than the solution. If people such as yourself would do as they are told when confronted by the police, many of these situations would never happen.

We do not tell people to do things because we like it, or because of some imagined power trip. We do so for our safety and yours. If I tell you to stop and put your hands up, I damned well expect you to do it. I don't expect you to ask why, and I will not likely explain it to you immediately if you do ask. Everything will be explained to you later. Right now I have business to attend to. Namely, you, who fits the description of a violent criminal, coming toward me in the dark, with some unidentified item in your hand, refusing to drop it and put your hands up when I tell you to.

That, sir, is a prime way to get shot. Not because I am a loose cannon. Not because I am a "cowboy". Not because I am corrupt or any such bullshit. Because I am trained to preserve lives, even if it costs yours to save mine or others.

When people run around spouting bullshit such as "Justice is not being done in the Oscar Grant case" when they really know nothing more about it than they have heard in the classically anti-police media, it really makes my blood boil.

Then for you to insinuate that it is perfectly okay for some ignorant asshole to place a flier on my windshield proclaiming the shooting of four police officers was somehow justified just shows us all why you are not a real lawyer. If you were you would certainly be a public defender, simply based upon your attitude.

Tell you what. Why don't you order yourself up a copy of the BART incident report and do something you obviously haven't done thus far. READ IT! That will tell you all you need to know.

As for justice, what is unjust is charging a police officer with MURDER for a shooting that for all intents and purposes appears accidental. I, of course, was not there and base my opinions solely on the same video you saw.

When the jury cannot find the officer guilty because the elements have not been proven, then Oakland will really burn.

Think Los Angeles, 1992.

Will that suit your skewed definition of justice?


David B. Woycechowsky said...

How would Officer Mehserle's shooting look different if it had been on purpose? Would he have followed it up with an evil scientist laugh and then proceeded to shoot out the BART camera?

If and when Officer Mehserle says his shooting was accidental I will consider it. What we have right now is the following:

- Mehserle's lawyer says he might have mistaken the gun for a taser. This means nothing.

- One of the other policemen said that he thought Mehserle mistook his gun for a taser -- that might mean something except for the fact that on the night of the shooting, before the videos were out, he didn't mention the taser thing, but rather said that he thought that Mehserle thought that Grant had a gun -- then the videos came out and his theory changed

- Mehserle chose to lose his job rather than give a statement -- this is not what police who make honest mistakes do


Even if Mehserle comes out at some point and says that he though he was shooting with a taser, the videos make it appear to me that Grant was cuffed and that Officer Pirone took cuffs off Grant quickly and immediately after Officer Mehserle shot him. Tasering a handcuffed man in those circumstances would have been a felony assault. If the victim of a felony assault dies, then that is called felony murder, which is still a form of murder.

We got justice for the four downed officers in Oakland and may they Rest In Peace. Time for justice for Oscar Grant.

David B. Woycechowsky said...

Oh, yeah, and BART's investigation of itself means nothing.

Not only is their report meaningless, but I strongly suspect that they are hiding surveillance video. Even if not, a transit authority not competent enough to run a surveillance video system is too incompetent to be trusted in any case.

Erin said...

I know nothing of the incident that happened in that shooting, but I know police procedure as much as a civilian can (my husband is a cop). The handcuffs being taken off? My guess is it was done to make TREATING HIM FOR HIS INJURIES a little bit easier. I'll bet there would have been another uproar if they HADN'T uncuffed a guy who had just been shot. Second, I heard that Mehserle's wife had a baby the next day. Is intentionally shooting a suspect something that a young man who has a helluva lot to risk would do? I think not. Certainly, these things aren't "evidence," but for once it would be nice for people to put themselves in COPS' shoes, to imagine the constant pressure they're under not to screw up, not to mention preserve lives, as Officer Smith put it so well.

Teri Kathleen said...

Officer "Smith", I wouldn't give idiots like David the satisfaction of responding to their outlandish claims. Personally, I wouldn't publish them either but that's just me. Keep up the good fight!

Stealth said...

Teri Kathleen -- Some people (like myself) may find the exchange between the two men interesting. Both of them are obviously literate and competent, thus able to communicate their respective point of view on a matter worthy of discussion.

I would hope Officer Smith does not shove this under the rug because you, and maybe others, think a divergence in opinion automatically makes someone an "idiot."

W/F in Virginia

Teri Kathleen said...

There is a difference between someone wanting you to defend what you do and a true debate. A true debate is where each side is open to the other side. The way David is, in my p.o.v., attacking the police leads me to believe that he does not care no matter what Officer "Smith" says. THAT is why I said what I said.

Anonymous said...

Let me explain the Taser and gun situation, since I can tell you don't understand. The X26 Taser most of us carry is designed and shaped exactly like a semiautomatic handgun-complete with trigger pull. Most, BUT NOT ALL, locations have mandated a crossdraw technique to be used if carrying and deploying a Taser per Taser International: i.e. the Taser must be holstered across your body from your sidearm to avoid such incidents as firing your firearm instead of your Taser. I have no idea whether BART has such a policy. I too was not there and therefore shall make no judgement on what happened. End of story-multiple people's lives are destroyed: civilian and police. Here's the thing-a civilian or untrained person looking at ANY police video is highly liable to make assumptions about situations. Again, I do not profess to know what happened in the BART shooting, but educating yourself on matters from both sides does help lend more of an understanding to any situation.

Leslie said...

To this David character:

You are a fucking moron if you think you know all when it comes to police and how they operate. You were not there for the BART incident or the Chino incident. Therefore, you have no fucking right to say shit about either incident!

We put our lives on the line every day so assholes like you can go about your day, dressed all fancy, acting like some big pompous ass, and calling yourself a "lawyer."

You have never known what it is like to have a man amped up on PCP rushing at you with a butcher knife. You have never held a mother as she wailed over the death of her child because some drunk driver crossed the center line and hit them head on. You have never walked into a home of a domestic dispute only to find the man had already killed his wife while you were in route to the call. You have never had to stare into the faces of a family and inform them of the loss of a loved one.

You have no fucking clue what it is like to be a cop!! You sleep in peace at night because of people like us. People who risk our lives every single day to ensure the citizens of our communities can sleep peacefully.

We lay our lives on the line every single day. So until you have walked a day, a week, a month, or even a year in our shoes...go fuck yourself!!!

Anonymous said...

I got one thing to say about David.
Sir if you had a brain you would be dangerous.You are a bleeding heart idiot!

*Goddess* said...

I have to agree with Teri Kathleen. I enjoy reading both sides of a discussion, but ONLY if the participants are willing to remain open minded. When one comes into it already having made up their mind that they are right, it's not a "discussion" anymore. It's one person talking to a brick wall.

TJ said...

Dear David ~

Excuse me. Today is NOT about Oscar Grant or anything else. It's not about police politics. You are being disrespectful, dishonorable and rude. Give it a rest and come back tomorrow. Okay?

Today is about the fallen officers who sacrificed their lives in service to my community.

Oakland Police Officers Sgt. Mark Dunakin, 40, John Hege, 41, Sgt. Ervin Romans, 43, and Sgt. Daniel Sakai, 35; I honor you for your sacrifice. I honor you for your dedication and service. May you rest in peace. May your friends and families find comfort and strength in the difficult days to come.

~from a deeply saddened Oakland resident.

Officer "Smith" said...


The fact that Mehserle may have mistaken his gun for a Taser certainly DOES mean something. It would be the difference between manslaughter, for which there is ample evidence, and murder, for which there is not.

Oscar Grant was not handcuffed when he was shot. No police officer I have ever met could remove a pair of handcuffs in half a second. As soon as Grant is shot, he can be seen flopping about with his RIGHT HAND FREE.

My take on it is this. It APPEARS that Grant was resisting the handcuffing process. It APPEARS that Mehserle stood up and immediately shot Grant. It then APPEARS that Mehserle got the famous "Oh Shit!" look when he realized his mistake.

In today's overly litigious society, I cannot say that Mehserle was wrong for resigning, rather than giving a statement that could well be used against him when the public outcry begins and the District Attorney feels pressure to prosecute.

Look at the whole picture here. It is clear that Oscar Grant was shot by Officer Mehserle in the presence of several other officers and several HUNDRED onlookers.

Do you really, truly think any police officer is going to stand there and murder someone under those circumstances? Do you really think all of those other officers would try to cover for Mehserle if they felt he had flat out murdered Grant?

I don't think so. But then again, based upon your track record so far, you probably have some far fetched idea that this is actually possible.

David B. Woycechowsky said...

The right hand doesn't come free until one of the officers, I believe it was Officer Pirone, bends over and does something to Oscar Grant's wrists immediately after the shooting and immediately prior to the arm being free. I suspect that is is when the hand cuffs were taken off one of Grant's wrists. Witnesses thought he was cuffed. Only the missing BART video surveillance footage knows for sure, but, unfortunately, BART has control and custody of that.

As far as that "famous oh s**t look," if that is all it takes to convince other LEOs that you are innocent, then of course you will give that look after you murder somebody. It is an easy look to fake, especially if it means that you can get away with murder.

I don't think the hundreds of onlookers matter either. There were police witnesses, and, for better or worse, theirs is the only word that matters.

I do not think that Officer Mehserle was thinking about the cel phones. That may be his one mistake, but, OTOH, it looks like he may be getting away with murder now anyway, despite the cel phone footage. The joke is on us. I wonder if he is in Mexico with that Rough Riders policeman yet.

Officer "Smith" said...

Obviously we are both stubborn and hard-headed, but I'm just not seeing the same things you are.

I suppose we'll see what happens when the jury can't find him guilty of murder, even though they could easily find him guilty of voluntary manslaughter but that's not what he was charged with.

cj said...

Hey, Woycechowsky - you're one of the reasons why Shakespeare said "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

He had a good idea there.